MMS080: Do You Have What It Takes To Be A Serial Entrepreneur

[INTRODUCTION]

ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the Money Mastermind Show. Let’s Talk Money.

[EPISODE]

[0:00:18] GC: And welcome to the Money Mastermind Show. Tonight, we have Jim Wang of Wallet Hacks and he’s going to help talk about what it takes to be a serial entrepreneur. Welcome to our show Jim.

[0:00:30] JW: Thanks for having me.

[0:00:31] GC: Absolutely, thanks for being here and the members of the Money Mastermind Show, for everybody else out there, is Kyle Prevost of Youngandthrifty.ca, Miranda Marquit of Planting Money Seeds, Peter Anderson of Bible Money Matters, Tom Drake of the Canadian Finance Blog, he’s not with us tonight but he’s part of the show, and I am Glen Craig of Free from Broke.

So, in this day and age, you hear about entrepreneurship all the time. How you had to get out there, building your own business, you see people, Shark Tank, so on and so forth. But it takes a certain personality, some type of person that can be an entrepreneur that keeps building different companies and businesses. What does it take to be a serial entrepreneur?

Maybe let’s throw out what does that even mean to be a serial entrepreneur? It sounds almost dangerous like you want to avoid that type of person.

[0:01:29] MM: Well, I’ll try to avoid Jim whenever I can but.

[0:01:33] GC: You know what I mean, I hate to say you throw “serial” in front of something and all of a sudden it’s like serial killer, okay wait, maybe it’s not an association when you want and maybe there is a certain psychosis involved with being a serial entrepreneur too but what do we mean by that? What do you think that’s all about Jim?

[0:01:51] JW: I mean I think that a serial entrepreneur is someone that, obviously definitionally, is someone who is building business after business and I think that’s driven a lot by a sense a curiosity of solving problems and so, it’s funny, one of the things that I’ve always been a fan of is standup comics and what’s funny now like Louis C.K. or like Chris Rock is a lot of its observational.

You see these things that are just, they’re a little weird and then you work on it and it becomes this bits that are funny and hilarious because everyone else sees it too and a lot of times, I think a serial entrepreneur is someone who’s going to be building businesses and businesses. They’re trying to solve these problems because they see these things.

These problems in the world that they’re like, “This isn’t how it should be. I think I can fix it and I can make some money in the process,” and so at the core of it, I think a lot of times it’s that curiosity, it’s that problem solving. They say like, the best business is the one that scratches your own itch and you have to have itches.

You have to see these things otherwise without that curiosity, you can’t come up with a business because then you will just go to work and be happy and content and not really have something that you think you could fix necessarily. That’s how I see it.

[0:03:11] MM: I want to say something really snarky about whisky right now, I just do. What problem is whisky solving?

[0:03:18] JW: Oh, the ones that can’t be solved by anything else I guess. There’s that.

[0:03:26] GC: That’s a whole other episode and a topic that we could go into but another time and maybe Miranda’s mentioned that because you Jim, you’ve had a lot of experience building different sites and different ventures out there. The reason we have you here is you have a certain success behind your own ventures. What is it that maybe drives you to keep building?

[0:03:54] JW: When I started talking about curiosity, it’s the problems that you want to solve but more so, there is a bit of fun in figuring things out, in starting a business and figuring out how to make it work. Miranda joked about whiskey and it’s because I have a blog about scotch called Scotch Addict and I started that as a hobby at about the same time I started Bargaineering which is the personal finance blog that predated Wallet Hacks.

That was more trying to figure out how to make money blogging about something that I was truly interested in. Which, I mean sounds kind of silly to say being interested in whiskey but we all have hobbies and much like personal finance when I started it, it was about chronicling and journaling that discover process and as we learn years later, you can make a pretty good living just writing your own experience nowadays.

Other things like I started a meal plan service with a partner called $5 Meal Plan that was me trying to figure out how to build a business with reoccurring income. I don’t use meal plans, don’t tell anybody this probably sacrilegious getting really started but.

[0:05:13] MM: We’re having Erin on in a couple of weeks.

[0:05:15] JW: Oh good, don’t ask her about me using her meal plans but I like to cook so I understand food and I understand the need to save money and I recognize the value in meal planning but I took on that project because I thought it would be fun to try to figure out how to build a reoccurring revenue business.

And we’re at the point now where we have a couple thousand numbers and building that community and learning how to keep that alive because unlike a blog, with a membership site, that’s how I think of it, you need to build that community because they’re going to be more willing to pay a monthly fee if, in addition to getting of the service which is a meal plan of sales every week, there’s a community there, they’re a part of something and the service isn’t just an e-mail that shows up every week.

So I took on that project because I was curious on whether or not I could do it, I could build it, it done very well much in part because of Erin and because in the end, you have to like the meals and the meal plan for you to keep going but there are all the other execution and tactical things that we’ve been able to do that it is fun to discover and it just goes back to the whole curiosity point.

[0:06:32] GC: For your partnership there it sounds like even though maybe, like you said, you want to scratch your own itch, your itch may not be necessarily the meals. That’s maybe Erin’s curiosity that drove her and what you found is like, “Hey look, you know what, I really like this business part of it.” Here’s the problem that you see that, “Hey can I conquer this, can I do something with it?”

[0:06:55] JW: Yes, exactly. So it’s not always necessarily what that service would provide to the end customer but what I can learn out of doing it. You asked what are the other traits of an entrepreneur? And looking back, I think not being afraid to mess up because there are some businesses that I’ve started that didn’t do well and you just shut down and you never hear about those because they just don’t come up in conversation. Right? So you have to be able to start things, learn what you can, learn whether or not you could do it and then shut it down if you can’t. So I think that’s another sort of key trait of entrepreneurs.

[0:07:42] GC: It’s not necessarily an easy process either and it’s certainly not overnight, and so it sounds that what your saying is everything that you do isn’t necessarily, you’re not going to get Facebook every time you go up to bat in other words.

[0:07:56] JW: Yeah but what’s fun is you learn something from each of those and the first time you go up to the plate to swing at a pitch, chances are you’re not going to hit home run but you’re probably are going to be in little league. So the stakes are lower, you get to practice, you learn and if you mess up and you strike out or whatever you got another at bat, you’ve got another at bat.

What you don’t want to do is wait until for some miraculous reason you’ve managed to make it to the major leagues without ever swinging a baseball bat. This is where the analogy kind of breaks down. You don’t want to have a high stake situation where you have everything riding on the line for the first time for you to try something. That’s the worst time to try. So a lot of times, you try something and if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out and you try something else and again and again and one of them has to work or you die of old age at which point it doesn’t matter at least yeah, you had fun trying all these different things.

[0:08:59] MM: I like how you talk about it as learning and kind of as this process and moving forward because a lot of the time, when we talk about entrepreneurs, we talk about successful business, we have this idea that there is this overnight success, so called “overnight success” and that’s only because we see the big splashy ending and we forget that there’s all these work that goes into it and leading out it.

I think a lot of people when they think about entrepreneurs and serial entrepreneurship, they’re like, “Oh well, they’re just moving on to this big thing, this big thing. And if I don’t have a big thing then it’s not worth it for me.” When the reality is, is you’re really putting it on the grind and you’re going to fail and you’re not going to be huge all the time.

[0:09:45] JW: Most of the time you’re not going to be huge.

[0:09:48] MM: Right.

[0:09:49] JW: Right and there’s the survivorship bias, you only hear about the success stories. No one really talks about the things that end up poorly and who’s got money. So I started listening to this podcast called Startup.

[0:10:02] MM: That’s a good one.

[0:10:03] JW: What’s fun is, so the second season, they’re talking about this company called dating ring which is match making and they go to Y Combinator, they get a little bit of funding, they decide they’re going to a transition to a lifestyle business. But the most interesting part, the part that I found valuable was when they were talking to their YC mentor and trying to figure out whether or not they’d come on the podcast and sort of show the behind the scenes.

The mentor was like, “Don’t do it,” because on the outside, all startups until they implode look wonderful because they are always talking about all these crazy growth and no one has to worry about making money and you have the whole everyone is in Silicon Valley, they’re all in bar saying, “Oh it’s so great to be at this whatever,” when in reality, everything is held together by duct tape and people making phone calls.

That’s what life is. Life is messy. It isn’t until they decide to make a movie out of it and even then, movies they gloss up all the good parts and they dumb down all the bad parts and you don’t realize that it’s mostly is really hard and you’re barely scrapping by and that’s all part of it and sometimes the thing dies and sometimes it succeeds and sometimes it dies slowly but that’s find. I mean it’s all part of the experience. It’s never like a rocket ship awesome forever to think that’s the case would be a huge mistake.

[0:11:38] GC: It also seems like whatever you’re working on now, either as much as it may be failing, as much as it’s successful, it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s your whole trajectory either. Whatever comes next, as good as this is, it might be even bigger. You always hear about an entrepreneur like, “Oh I did this and then I did this and that’s the superstar thing where as a lot of people might have been happy if they’d gotten maybe just a piece of it versus an entrepreneur that even if a little bit of success comes along, they’re still going out for something else.

[0:12:08] JW: Also, whenever you have any sort of business, you’re trying as many things as you can think of and that you have time for and some small fraction of them, they’re going to work and a lot of them aren’t. That means as you try, you’re going to fail a ton and most of it is going to suck but the part that doesn’t is a part that you remember and the part that drives you to keep going. Right?

You have a blog, you’ve been writing articles, no one likes them, no one shares them on social media and then one day, some reporter catches it and you’re on whatever MSN, Yahoo, one of the portals and you’re like, “This is awesome. I’m going to keep doing it.” When you think about it though, that’s in part dumb luck. That’s not dumb luck — well, you do things to improve your chances, the fact that that thing was seen by that person and caught on this much is in part luck and if you last at something long enough, you’re going to have more lucky situations.

And so the question is can you create that survivorship by. So just doing it long enough, you don’t fail until you quit. So you just keep doing it and then you won’t fail.

[0:13:23] MM: But when it’s time to die, I mean I really like how you mentioned a little bit earlier that sometimes it’s time to let something die. How do you decide that, how do you make that decision as you’re going forward when part of you is just like, “Oh, just if I just hang on another couple of weeks then I’ll be discovered, if I keep surviving I’ll be fine.” But where is that line? Where do you decide when it’s time to let it just die and go away?

[0:13:51] JW: I think in each of our own lines, we have this list of opportunities that we want to pursue and it’s when you get to the point with whatever is your primary focus where you feel like your time is better spent somewhere else. When you have exhausted all the things that you know off of what to do and you just don’t have the emotional buy in to keep going at it, I would say that that’s probably a good time to figure out how to exit.

Now if you thought that the business generates cash flow, “Do I let this just glide and just slowly die, do I try to sell it or whatever?” But the point is that you’ve gotten to the point where you’re no longer emotionally invested in this project and if you don’t have that, I often find that it’s very difficult to grow it, to wake up and I hate the use the word passionate, because it gets overused. But if you aren’t waking up thinking about the things that you could do on this project, that means you’re not bought into it.

If you’re not bought into it, it’s really hard to be creative and grow something when you’re not thinking about it all the time whether subconsciously or actively as you’re doing things. I’m very much a spreadsheets guy, like numbers and everything but like everyone else, we all make decisions based on emotion and look for logic to support it and at the very core, if it’s not exciting you, if you’re not waking up wanting to do something for it, it might be time to think about is there an alternative project that I can work on?

[0:15:30] KP: The teacher side of me Jim wonders, other than just jumping in with both feet and failing a bunch of times, is there anything you can do to increase your chances whether it’s your third company or your first company? Is there a way to prepare for any informal or formal education that you think highly of?

[0:15:47] JW: That’s a good question. This is probably — I don’t know if this is the best way to do but I think of the thing that I’m most interested in and I try to figure out what can I do in the next couple of weeks to figure out whether this is something that will be big or just not at all. And it’s very much like getting your first customer, like figuring out, “What milestones do I need to hit within the next, within the first three months for me to take this seriously?”

One of the things that I did with Kasai Media which is the personal finance influencer network, the very basic idea that’s been around for a while but I figured — I partnered with someone that was very big on the lifestyle space. I figured I had all the company, a lot of personal finance company context so I told myself, “If I can get on,” it was in the first month or two I think I must have been on like 30 phone calls with companies.

And I said, “If I can get on 30 calls and I can get a couple of campaigns just enough of the really good, like the getting of front page of Yahoo or whatever, like some really good events happening with this company, then we’ll keep it going and then we’ll get a sense of how big it could be,” and we were able to get a couple of campaigns. We talked to some companies, someone we’ll do it later, someone we do it early and it was almost as if, it was one step beyond proof of concept.

I didn’t build the prototype or anything, we didn’t build anything. I just called people, e-mailed people, put it in the spreadsheet and then once we got to the point where we needed something bigger, we didn’t build software, but build a more secure process in the back to manage all these contacts like a sales funnel. I think you just have to go out and do it and figure out pretty quickly whether it will be effective.

[0:17:50] GC: And for that, it sounds like it was everything that you did before prepared you for that. Like you said you had all these personal finance contacts so you were able to take and leverage what you did in a prior business and prior working contacts and build that into something else.

[0:18:08] JW: Yeah.

[0:18:08] GC: So even whether or not you had this success you had, just that experience probably helped prepare you for Kasai Media?

[0:18:19] JW: Yeah and you always have to leverage your strength and so what I knew is that I had a lot of friends who are personal finance warriors, I’s talked to a lot of companies. Now, there had been a bunch of years where I stopped writing Bargaineering and when I started reaching out to these companies again, but there was still the relationship there to some degree. People knew who I was. It wasn’t like a cold e-mail or a cold phone call so I had that advantage.

In life, it’s not fair. You’ve got to take whatever advantage you can get. You have to think about the things that you can take, you can leverage for your benefit and for that, a lot of that is relationships. But if you wanted to start it completely from scratch, I would think the hardest part is not so much getting the companies but for getting the bloggers, the actual influencers of the product that you’re selling to even pay attention to you.

So I had covered that hurdle, I jumped over that hurdle or whatever and the next part was getting on phone calls and learning how to sell. So here’s the part of that project that really interested me is I didn’t feel very comfortable selling and so I thought, “Well, the best way to get over that is to try to sell something.” So I thought, “Well, why don’t I just go on these phone calls, try to pitch them this idea?”

I started reading books and learning how to sell everything, which surprisingly effective selling doesn’t feel like selling at all, which is good. But that was a part of it that really excited me and what I want to learn and so through all the phone calls, it helped me become better at it and it’s been fun. I don’t know.

[0:20:14] GC: It sounds like just there, you are also talking about the passions that you have. So it’s not just something that you try doing door to door, nine to five. You’re not selling encyclopedias, that just work. But here is something where this is what you were doing, who you were, this selling comes off differently. It’s not selling, it’s like, “I’ve built this and I know it could help you.”

[0:20:38] JW: Yeah. It was fun to talk to startups because pure companies are doing really interesting things and they’re really innovative and they’re not getting the response from bloggers that they like because there’s not as if no one knows who they are. There’s an e-mail among thousands of e-mails that people are getting and they’re unable to spread that message which kind of sucks.

So that is where I felt, “Oh, this is awesome that I could bring some of these companies that are doing cool things,” and I felt like they were fellow entrepreneurs and they wanted to help when they had a good product. When they didn’t, often times I’ll just say that there really not much, “I don’t think we could help you get,” — because they see sponsored posts and things like that as a paid acquisition channel.

They want to pay X dollars to get a number sign up so they need the sign ups that cost them about whatever it is, $1, $2, $5. But if I don’t think their product is really that good, then this will be a one off thing where we do a small campaign. It’s not going to work and then it won’t really benefit them or benefit us in the long term and it really won’t benefit the bloggers either because they’re promoting, they would be writing a review or talking about a service that I already felt wasn’t really that good.

And so it was fun because a lot of these startups do have interesting services because they got funding for it but the ones that don’t, maybe they’re less interesting so I don’t know. All throughout the process, learning to do sales, and I don’t think I’m good at it by any means but I am certainly far more comfortable.

When I started, I used to have not a script but a list of bullet points in case I ever got lost in a conversation and didn’t know what to say next because sometimes those happen. I was like, “Oh, well now I can go on a call and I could talk to someone, build a rapport, find out about their service and find out what they need without having to have that list,” and it’s fun. It’s a lot of fun.

[0:22:45] MM: One of the things that I really like about what you said was you’re uncomfortable and I think that a lot of — what’s that saying? Is that your growth doesn’t happen in your comfort zone. So I really like you talking about being willing to get out of that comfort zone.

[0:23:01] JW: I think there are two schools of thought, like you work on your strengths or you work on your weaknesses and I guess this falls into the work on the weakness thing but to counter that, because like they say, “You work on your strengths, you get better on your strengths and it’s usually a far more better use of your time,” but the core that I also feel like on some weaknesses is you have to have a certain level of competency.

I didn’t feel like I had that level of competency so that’s why I wanted to work on it and I don’t know if starting a business with that in mind, like I didn’t — we didn't start the business because I wanted to get better at sales but there’s this thing about it that I latched onto as the fun thing or the thing that will help me grow as a person. Sort of like the Meal Plan thing was about how do I build this?

The number one reason is because obviously, you want to generate income and you want to build a good company and things like that. But the part that I latched onto that was the most interesting was work on retention, work on upgrades rates, work on all these other number things and community building. In every project you have to find, day to day there’ll be things that you don’t like and you have to latch on and find the things that you really enjoy digging into and try to do more of that.

[0:24:25] PA: You know, I think that if you’re going to be a serial entrepreneur, it really almost sounds like you have to enjoy the process of building something, of growing something from the ground up and seeing it from the infancy stage all the way up to where it’s a full fledge product or service or whatever the case maybe and also just enjoying the process of building something and learning new things like learning sales or whatever the case maybe.

[0:24:53] JW: I totally agree.

[0:24:53] GC: You said you didn’t like necessarily using the word passion but there’s always going to be something that spark that keeps you going. If you run into any entrepreneur and they all seem to have some sort of maybe phonetic excitement about what they’re doing. You don’t run into people going, “Yeah, you know, I’m doing this.” They’re just like, “Yeah, yeah! I’ve got this going on and then I’m doing this and then I’m doing this,” they have this energy towards the work that they’re doing. It’s not like, “Oh yeah, it’s just another day in the office,” because being an entrepreneur it’s not that nine to five grind. It’s a different type of energy that you’re putting into it.

[0:25:36] JW: Yeah and I think the problem with the term passion is it becomes very loaded and people think about, “You know, I need that to happen every single day for me to have a business or continue to be involved.” And earlier, Miranda asked me, “How do you know when to quit?” and I started to say when you don’t have the passion but you will passion and excitement about anything over a period of time.

You start something, you can be super excited because the learning curve would be huge, it’s going to be constant discovery and constant growth and you’re going to get addicted to it and then you’ll go over a little hump where you maybe don’t learn or there are other things that you have to deal with and you won’t be passionate about dealing with it by any means and the problem is, you have to push through that. Well, if you started the whole thing thinking, “I need to be passionate 24/7,” you’re going to hit that moment where you’re like, “I’m not passionate anymore, time to quit.”

Well no, you have to push through that in order to get to the next level or the next phase of that business and work is called work for a reason. You have to just work and sometimes you won’t be super excited about it but if you haven’t been excited about it in a year maybe, right? But if you haven’t been excited in a couple of months, okay maybe you just got to push through this section of it. That’s why I am always hesitant with the whole passion thing.

[0:27:01] PA: In the New York Times, Jay Gold, an author and an entrepreneur, he talked about how one of the main attributes of a successful entrepreneur is tenacity. Just being able to stick with it and work hard through those tough times and knowing what your ultimate goals is and being able to work through those tough days where you don’t want to make sales calls or whatever, sticking with it and getting over the humps and staying all the way through the end.

[0:27:29] JW: Yeah, tenacity is just a nicer word for being stubborn, right? Like, “I’m going to do it. I’m just going to fight through this.” Because here’s the funny thing. There are a lot times when I would have a scheduled call, as mentioned early on I’m like, “I don’t really want to do this. I don’t really want to do this.” And I thought to myself, “There is no reason other than myself for me not to do this.”

But it would be one thing if I’d set myself three or four e-mails to someone trying to schedule something and they kept blowing me off and on the fifth time I was like, “You know what? I don’t want to e-mail this person because they’re just going to blow me off.” That I can understand you giving up on that process but if you already have a scheduled call and you just don’t feel like doing it and the only thing stopping you is you because you don’t feel like it, you can’t let yourself stop it.

The world is going to conspire against you, you have to have that chip on your shoulder and feel like everyone is out to get you, you have to at least be on your side and you can’t quit and so that’s where I draw my stubbornness and tenacity. It’s like, “Listen, other people are going to stop me. I can’t stop me because if I do, I’m not going to go anywhere.”

[0:28:43] GC: It’s interesting how you’re saying the world is always going to conspire against you because there’s also this other attitude out there and maybe not entrepreneurship but that, “If I just put it out there, if I tell people what my passion is it’s going to happen,” and it sounds like what you’re talking about is almost like the exact opposite of that. You’re going to have to overcome a lot but you’re going to have to be the one that does it and that maybe is the big difference.

[0:29:12] JW: I don’t know if there’s any one right way but I think whatever gets you to do the work and continue to do it when it sucks and you don’t like it is what you have the focus on. If you have to draw a vision board of how you want your life to be and that’s what motivates you to continue working when you don’t want to work then do that.

Whatever the secret is, visualizing your future whatever gets you to do it. For me, it’s thinking that other people are trying to beat me and I don’t want them to beat me so I’m going to keep going out there and doing what I can to prevent it. There’s no right answer, there’s so many different ways to do it. Just pick the one that works, just keep doing that one. If it stops working and I need to make a vision board to help me visualize my future, then I’ll do that but I think what I’m doing is working so far.

[0:30:10] KP: It’s interesting Jim as a sports junkie that almost sounded like a clip out of like a Michael Jordan or or Kobe Bryant or some of those guys have a very similar view. So it’s interesting to see similar motivation or similar mindset can be applied to excelling at a kid’s game like basketball and being an entrepreneur and that you had similar ways of facing challenges.

[0:30:33] JW: Yeah, I mean I don’t think I’m to the degree of Jordan or Kobe where I think everyone is out to get me and they guy across from me. I not to not only beat or embarrass.

[0:30:45] KP: Annihilate, yeah.

[0:30:47] JW: Yeah, well I don’t think it’s like that but there is us versus the world. Now that us could be a group of people that I see as us, it may change the situation to situation but it’s very much like that’s how I motivate myself is that there’s competition and I want to win it somehow. Now, that’s not at all cost because there are people and I remember working nine to five.

There are people that wanted to get promoted and work up the corporate ladder at the cost of spending time with their family. Yeah, I wanted to win at the businesses that I have but not at the cost of friends, family, health and things like that because I hope that when I’m old, I don’t think to myself, “Man, I wish I went on more walks and I’m not this unhealthy person.”

Or, “My kids don’t know who I am because I’m always on the internet working on the internet businesses with my internet friends.” I just don’t want that to happen and I think because I know that at this age, it won’t but to the extent, I don’t have to sacrifice those other things that I find more important in order to pursue some of these business and financial goals, that’s what I’ll do.

[0:32:09] GC: It sounds like you’ve struck a pretty good balance Jim. I think we’re all familiar with a lot of your success and obviously, that’s why we have you here. So it sounds like you’ve had…

[0:32:19] JW: I thought you guys liked me?

[0:32:23] GC: Well yeah, a little bit of that too.

[0:32:24] PA: That too, that too.

[0:32:25] GC: Yeah. But just to wrap up here at the end of the show, thank you for your time.

[0:33:00] JW: Of course.

[0:33:01] GC: We like to have a final word where we talk a little bit and kind of sum up what we’re doing so we’ll go around and Peter, what’s your final word on being a serial entrepreneur? What do you think about that?

[0:33:11] PA: Well, I just think you have to know yourself and know if you have the right personality for that because I think that you really have to have an optimistic outlook, kind of a go-go mentality to get things done when they need to get done. You can’t be the kind of person that’s going to be making excuses of why you can’t get things done. You have to be the kind of person that find solutions for problems and tries to fix things and build something big. So just know that when you start, whether you’re the right type to be that serial entrepreneur.

[0:33:41] GC: Kyle, what’s your views on serial entrepreneurship?

[0:34:00] KP: Well, I have to admit that I am not in fact a serial entrepreneur as of yet, maybe a “baby steps” entrepreneur would be a better description but I know this much. I know I get excited when I do talk to successful entrepreneurs and people that are talking with the passion like Jim does and a little bit of knowledge and experience both tackling different challenges and that fires me up to try and do the different things that he’s talking I’m like, “Oh, I could apply this and I could put this spin on that in my line of work.” So yeah, the more people you can network with that have that inner fire, that entrepreneurial drive, I think the better off you’ll be.

[0:34:37] GC: Jim, what’s your final word on being a serial entrepreneur?

[0:35:10] JW: I think, you know as I said before, businesses on the inside, they are messy. They’re not perfect and as much as you’d like everything to go a 100% your way all the time, they don’t and that’s how you react to it because if you let them beat you up and stop you and prevent you from doing something, then you’re going to stop. If you stop, then you will not have a business. So keep at it, learn from these mistakes. Someone get Miranda a headset that works and have fun. You guys are always having fun so that part is not a problem.

[0:35:54] GC: And that’s an important too, sometimes you have to team up with people who help your entrepreneurial idea. Like you were talking about Jim, how you teamed up for the Meal Plans, you found somebody else that found that other side that was able to do something here. I think we at the Money Mastermind Show, we teamed up because we all brought certain something different to the show and as a result and one of us has a little hiccup or whatever, we have the rest of the team that can jump in and help out there. So Jim, thank you again for coming on and joining us.

[0:36:29] JW: Thank you. This has been a lot of fun.

[0:36:32] GC: For those who may not be familiar with Wallet Hacks or any of the projects that are out there, let us know what you’re doing, what is it out there where could people find you online?

[0:36:41] JW: All right, so the WalletHacks.com is the new personal finance site and I try to focus on strategies and tactics for people to get ahead financially in more clever ways to not take the regular road. The meal plan service if you’re looking to save money on meals $5 Meal Plan and as you like whisky and everybody should like whisky especially scotch, you go to ScotchAddict.com. Love to have you, we have a fun group there. It’s probably my most entertaining part because it involves alcohol and you get samples. It’s my most entertaining project but yeah, I love to have you and anyone.

[0:37:24] GC: You look at common themes that run through people’s businesses and you’ve got a $5 Meal Plan, scotch and personal finance and that, yeah, hmm.

[0:37:35] KP: It pretty much sounds like college to me. I don’t know.

[0:37:40] GC: You’ve got the personal finance so you have enough money, you got the $5 dollar plan so everything is taken care with that and then you have enough money for the scotch so.

[0:37:50] PA: It all works out.

[0:37:50] JW: It’s a natural tie in.

[0:37:52] GC: Thank you again Jim for your time and for sharing your expertise with us and our audience and everybody out there, thank you for listening and until next week, be good with your money.

ANNOUNCER: Thanks for joining us on the Money Mastermind Show, get more information at Moneymastermindshow.com. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes and YouTube and follow us on Google Plus.

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